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-   -   Locking the revo in 2nd gear to use motor braking/reverse (https://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7441)

BrianG 08.25.2007 05:32 PM

Locking the revo in 2nd gear to use motor braking/reverse
 
If you get the rc-monster revo motormount, you can either use the mechanical brake or use this to lock it into 2nd gear;

Option 1: Two-speed transmission with stock brake and stock reverse:
You'll need servos for the reverse shifter and the brake. The downside to this is that the reverse stock mechanism is generally pretty weak, especially since you're now using brushless. And you cannot use a center differential because the diff replaces the shift fork, dog gear, and second output gear. You can however still use the Optidrive to help protect against accidental reverse when moving.


Option 2: Two speed transmission with mechanical brake and no reverse (the cheap way):
You'll still need a servo for the brake. Lock the shift fork somehow.


Option 3: Two speed transmission with mechanical brake and no reverse (the right way):
You'll still need a servo for the brake. Install the FOC (forward-only conversion) to eliminate reverse and get rid of the extra weight from the servo, Optidrive, assorted linkages, etc. This option lets you use a center differential if you want.


Option 4: Modify the transmission for single speed (2nd gear):
Lock the centrifugal clutch into second gear. See locking mechanism picture below. You don't have to, but you can also remove first gear altogether for a simpler and lighter tranny. Either way, 1st gear won't be used at all. Locking into second gear is the ONLY option where you can use the brake and/or reverse using the brushless motor.


And here is a method you can use to lock the tranny in second gear should you choose to do so:

http://scriptasylum.com/bl_conversio...ked_tranny.jpg

To do this:
  1. Remove first gear

  2. Install the FOC

  3. Install whatever gear set you want (std, wide, or narrow). Since each of these gear sets just adjusts 2nd gear, you can set a higher or lower ratio right off the bat to possibly allow better spur/pinion selections.

  4. Remove screw, spring, ball bearing, and little grey plastic plug on the centrifugal clutch.

  5. File three half-moon slots in the edge of the clutch lined up with three of the holes in second gear.

  6. Screw three 4mmX10mm pan head screws into second gear so they lock into the half moon cutouts you made on the clutch.

Simple diagram showing the basic parts before and after:

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/re...ny_diagram.jpg

Thanks to Finnster for the following images showing much more detail on how to perform the actual locking modification:

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/revolockmod1.jpg

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/revolockmod2.jpg

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/revolockmod3.jpg


Link to the "pin mod": http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...8&postcount=45

jnev 08.25.2007 06:00 PM

You can still lock it into 2nd gear to use motor braking with the wide ratio gear set, right?

oops, nevermind. Stupid me never read the last part. You can delete this post. :o

Serum 08.25.2007 06:10 PM

yes, indeed; that's possible.

jnev 08.25.2007 07:30 PM

I was planning on asking for more help on locking it into 2n gear, but those new diagrams helped so much. Thanks so much for that. :smile with a big thank you:

BrianG 08.25.2007 07:48 PM

lol, no problem. As they say; a picture is worth 1,000 words...

BTW: The scale is a bit off, and the gears are all white-ish...

jnev 08.26.2007 07:06 PM

Quick question, when you file down the 3 slots for the screws, do you file right on the side f the gear so the thread of the screw goes into the gear a little? Or do you file the top of the gear, so the pan head of the screw goes into the top? Let me know, if you want to me to explain it more. It may be a little confusing the way I said it.

Let me know. Thanks.

Cajun 08.26.2007 07:16 PM

You file into the centrifugal clutch. There are already holes in the gear that the 4mm screws fit into and the screw top rests against the face of the clutch once installed.

jnev 08.26.2007 08:23 PM

Oh I see. So part of the thread will be in the centrifugal clutch after sanding it down in the three spots?

I bought the screws today. So now I just need to wait for the wide ratio gear set to arrive before I can actually lock it into gear.

BrianG 08.26.2007 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnev (Post 114980)
So part of the thread will be in the centrifugal clutch after sanding it down in the three spots?

Yup, that's right. Once you have the gear and clutch in your hand, you'll see more easily. The holes in the gear are partially covered by the clutch, so filing half circles uncovers the holes and lets the screw thread in. Three seems to hold very well so far, but you could go crazy and use all of the holes.

Whatever you do, make sure the screws are equally spaced or you'll have balance issues.

jnev 08.27.2007 12:30 AM

Thanks so much for the help. Hopefully the wide ratio gear set will arrive tomorrow so I can get to work. :)

I also heard that you put some Jato pins like these: http://www.buytraxxas.com/product_in...oducts_id=2399 into your center tranny. Can you explain to me where these pin(s) go and are they actually needed? When my bro ran a Picco .26 in the Revo, he had no problems at all, but then again, its not brushless. :)

Thanks again for all the help so far.

Finnster 08.27.2007 08:43 AM

If you don't mind I'll add a couple pics of the clutch for clarity:
[see OP]
The filed holes should line up to to the holes in the 2nd gear. If you have a 4mm tap, its a nice idea to run it thru the plastic gear for a bit more strength and durability. The holes should be in the same place for all the gear sets. As pictured, try to line up the clutch arm right to the drive pin of the 2nd gear so the drive pin is taking most of the force of the acceleration (as its designed to.)

Lastly, don't use longer than 10mm screws or it will stick out the back end into anther gear.


Other notes: I didn't remove the plug on my 1st one. Seems fine. I also switched to button heads later as they are lighter. I also did one clutch w/ just two screws (instead of 3) and it seems strong as well, tho I use manual brakes and no reverse so YMMV. I also removed the set screw that controls shift points to remove the spring pressure pulling the clutch arm in. Do not have to do this, just makes life a bit easier (as found on 1st one.)

Thanks Brian!

BrianG 08.27.2007 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnev (Post 115034)
I also heard that you put some Jato pins like these: http://www.buytraxxas.com/product_in...oducts_id=2399 into your center tranny. Can you explain to me where these pin(s) go and are they actually needed?

Those pins replace the ones currently in the tranny. There are two places where these go; on the input gears (blue ones in the pic in the first post), and on the output gear that is on the output shaft. These pins secure the gear to the shaft.

The Picco is a strong motor, but doesn't have that instaneous snap that BL has, which can break these pins.

jnev 08.27.2007 07:47 PM

Thank you guys so much for the help. This is exactly the info I really needed.

Sorry for another question, but I want o get it all right the first time, lol. The Jato pins fit right where the stock ones go, correct? Is there any modification like widening the hole a little to get them to fit needed? If there is something needed to do, should the pins fit really tightly, or somewhat loosely?

Thanks again for the help so far.

BrianG 08.27.2007 08:07 PM

Yeah, you're gonna have to drill the shaft hole out a little and it'll be kinda tough since the shafts are steel. Use a vice, NOT your hand to hold the shaft while drilling. A drill size just big enough for the smooth part of the pin, but no slop, is needed. Then, the hole in the gear (where the pin's threads will bite into) need to be widened just a bit too.

jnev 08.28.2007 03:26 AM

Thanks for the help Brian. I feel like an expert now, lol.

LHS was out of the Jato pins :sigh: Looks like rebuilding the tranny will have to weight even longer... I would like to get everything done right the first time, so I don't have to go back later and rebuild the tranny because of some broken pins, that I was told would have a chance of breaking anyway.

BrianG 08.28.2007 10:40 AM

Well, if you want to start playing now without the pin mod, just reduce the start power a little so you don't have as much snap. That's what breaks the pins. Then when you get the pins at some point, you can put them in whenever.

jnev 08.28.2007 11:10 AM

I will probably still wait until I have them. I would do this, but I don't even have electronics to test the car, so there isn't really a point. I am selling my rc18mt to buy a Neu 1515/1y, and then after that, test it with the MM ESC, and hope it doesn't cog too much, lol.

zeropointbug 09.05.2007 03:16 PM

If anyone is interested, I used a piece of traxxas driveshafts (female) and cut a chunk to put between the shifting dog and the other gear (the keyed part of the output shat). Second gear is always engaged this way, and I just used a 4mm screw and threaded into the dog shaft input on the tranny to prevent dirt from entering.

BrianG 09.05.2007 04:18 PM

Pictures would probably be much easier to visualize...

zeropointbug 09.06.2007 12:40 AM

HERE you go, pics at bottom...

BrianG 09.06.2007 12:42 AM

OK, I think I see. Won't the clutch arm simply go back into the clutch on braking or reverse?

zeropointbug 09.06.2007 01:01 AM

I don't think the clutch arm will help any, right now it's just hanging there loose. The two screws are a very tight fit into the alum. clutch housing (moon shaped holes), they should hold just fine.

BrianG 09.06.2007 01:06 AM

Oh, you did the moon-shaped-hole thing. I thought you came up with something different using the clutch arm. My bad. : )

jnev 09.08.2007 11:29 PM

I have all the parts so I am locking it into 2nd gear right now. This is a very stupid question, but how do you get the metal piece that you make the moon shaped cutout on out?

BTW - A little spring and one silver ball fell out. Are those pieces needed?

BrianG 09.09.2007 04:41 AM

Remove the gear (2nd) that is over it. Then you'll see a pin that holds the clutch in place.

The little spring, silver ball are parts that provide the tension to the clutch arm. There should also be a small grub screw as well, but that must have come out already since that it what holds the screw/spring in. None of those parts are needed at all. You might also want to pop out the plastic plug while you're at it. See the pic below:

http://scriptasylum.com/forumpics/revolockmod3.jpg

The pic also mentions the ball, spring, etc. ;)

jnev 09.09.2007 10:10 AM

I am still a little confused though. I can't figure out how to get the whole clutch off. For the gray plug, do you push to get it off?

BrianG 09.09.2007 12:32 PM

The plastic gear that surrounds the clutch has to come off. That means the other gear in front of that one has to come off first.

The gray plug should just push out fairly easily.

jnev 09.09.2007 05:57 PM

Finally figured it out, lol. The gray plug was covered by the C clip, that I wasn't sure whether it was supposed to come out. Thanks for the help guys. Now, lets hope I can finish it before the week starts. :smile:

Thanks for all the help.

jnev 09.12.2007 08:34 PM

Once again another question... :lol:.

I made the moon shaped cut outs and everything else, but when I put the screws in, they seem to hit the gear below it, so the pan head does not rest on the clutch. Do I cut the head off of it, so that the thread will stay in and be flush at the top and bottom and so the gear above it can fit properly?

Or should I cut the head off and make the thread shorter...?

Not really sure here. Let me know ASAP, so I can get this tranny back together.

I can't imagine the screws in the picture above working...? Would the gear hit the top? BTW - I bought M4 10mm long screws.

BrianG 09.12.2007 10:31 PM

If the screws are 10mm long, they shouldn't go beyond the gear face. I don't know why they would but how much space is there between the screw head and the clutch? If it's just a little, I'd use a washer to take up the slack (really shouldn't matter) so that you can remove the screws if you need to.

There should be no clearance issues if you remove first gear.

jnev 09.13.2007 01:37 AM

Should the screws lock into place...? Because mine kind of just falls in, and hits the gear beneath the clutch...

BrianG 09.13.2007 02:06 AM

Well, the screws actually thread into the holes in the gear. If they don't, I wonder if you actually got 3mm screws?

jnev 09.13.2007 02:31 AM

Wow, you must be right. I'll have to go back to the store and buy some new ones. 3mm would translate to M3 screws, correct?

BrianG 09.13.2007 02:39 AM

Yeah. Don't you have a little box with all your RC screws? There is a substantial difference between 4mm (M4) and 3mm (M3), lol. And, if you got the wrong diameter, you might have gotten the wrong length as well, which would explain why they don't sit flush against the clutch. When you go to your LHS, get someone to get the correct part who is sober! :mdr:

jnev 09.13.2007 03:00 AM

I actually just found the screws. I thought they were in my rc screws box, but they ended up in another box :lol:. But I am unsure how the screws should fit. They are even longer than the previous ones, and don't even fit in the whole. They only fit through the gear that covers the clutch...

BrianG 09.13.2007 10:38 AM

Well, all I know is that 4mm (M4) screws that are 10mm long will work perfectly. The screws actually thread into the gear holes, so you'll have to do a little bit of work. :wink:

Cajun 09.13.2007 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianG (Post 118143)
Well, all I know is that 4mm (M4) screws that are 10mm long will work perfectly. The screws actually thread into the gear holes, so you'll have to do a little bit of work. :wink:

Yep, that's what I used in mine and they fit perfectly.

jnev 09.15.2007 02:43 AM

Its a miracle!!!
 
Again, the screws I though were right, were wrong. :diablo: So I was finally able to go buy the right ones... and they fit!! Hurray!! :lol:

Just thought I would let everyone know that If I can do this mod, anyone can.

Bad news though, is that the bits I have for the drill are not sharp/hard/strong enough to drill through the shaft. So as of right now, I still have the stock pins in. Any recommendations on really hard drill bits?

jnev 09.15.2007 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnev (Post 118453)
Bad news though, is that the bits I have for the drill are not sharp/hard/strong enough to drill through the shaft. So as of right now, I still have the stock pins in. Any recommendations on really hard drill bits?

Anyone?? :cry:

david lamontagn 09.23.2007 09:48 AM

Just a little question about the mod jato pin to secure the gear in the revo tranny.
Somes guys here talk about the Jato outdrive pin, but can i use the revo drive shaft pin? (the one who secure the drive shaft to the diff output)

Thank's

David


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