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slimthelineman
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10.17.2010, 12:21 AM

But that would make too much sense.
   
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What's_nitro?
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10.17.2010, 12:42 AM

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Originally Posted by slimthelineman View Post
But that would make too much sense.
...and this is America. Making sense is a felony.


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E-Revonut
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10.17.2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by _paralyzed_ View Post
Instead of ripping on MA (which is quite easy to do) We as consumers need to DEMAND an INDUSTRY STANDARD for lipo testing, similar to wattage ratings on home stereos. (x watts at x ohms at x thd)

So much time and energy is wasted on bickering and mud throwing, why not use that time and energy to solve the problem?
Never thought I'd hear something that made so much sense from you Harold


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_paralyzed_
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10.17.2010, 01:12 AM

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Originally Posted by E-Revonut View Post
Never thought I'd hear something that made so much sense from you Harold
every now and then there is a glimmer of brightness that pokes out from my otherwise dull existence


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It's "Dr. _paralyzed_" actually. Not like with a PhD, but Doctor like in Dr. Pepper.
   
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Light bulb goes on above head.
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JERRY2KONE
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Light bulb goes on above head. - 10.17.2010, 01:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by _paralyzed_ View Post
Instead of ripping on MA (which is quite easy to do) We as consumers need to DEMAND an INDUSTRY STANDARD for lipo testing, similar to wattage ratings on home stereos. (x watts at x ohms at x thd)

So much time and energy is wasted on bickering and mud throwing, why not use that time and energy to solve the problem?
Harold you just hit the nail on the head my friend. Why not have someone in here write to CONSUMER REPORTS questioning the battle going on between all of these LiPo complany products and ask them to sort things out for the rest of us. I have always loved the way they do their comparisons and report the facts to the consumers. That would be interesting enough for me. Having an impartial judge to sort them out would work best, right?


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_paralyzed_
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10.17.2010, 02:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JERRY2KONE View Post
Harold you just hit the nail on the head my friend. Why not have someone in here write to CONSUMER REPORTS questioning the battle going on between all of these LiPo complany products and ask them to sort things out for the rest of us. I have always loved the way they do their comparisons and report the facts to the consumers. That would be interesting enough for me. Having an impartial judge to sort them out would work best, right?
I like it. I hadn't considered Consumer Reports. I will write something up, and as long as I'm sending it off I will send it to Underwriters Laboratories (UL).

What should the criteria be? I feel burst ratings aren't as important, and will be harder to measure exactly. So I think the formula should be to measure constant "c" ratings. Something like:

x amp discharge for x seconds without cells dropping below x volts

and of course graphs to back it up.

I'm pretty serious about this. I think we (RCM) should collaborate and decide what the formula should be and start putting it out there. Call it the "RCM standard" Any manufacturer worth their grits would be happy to participate in a standardized test.

So guys: What should the formula be? Lets help mature our beloved hobby.


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_paralyzed_
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10.17.2010, 02:32 AM

also, to remove all variables batteries should be at ambient temp and the testing room temp should be noted. As well as pack temp after. Up to x mph cooling airflow allowed.

Are there any variables I am missing?

Let us make the criteria and shove it down the industries throat! It's our money lining their pockets, lets us be informed!


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Ideas
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JERRY2KONE
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Ideas - 10.17.2010, 07:43 AM

From my perspective the best person to set this up if he wants to accept is Brian G. He can place whatever we come up with into one of his spec charts for all of us to have access to.

I believe all we have to do is input what we feel is most important for these comparisons and once its all put together you can copy it as a file and attach it to your letter to Consumer Reports as a request from the entire R/C community and list The RCM Forum as a place of contact for further info if required. This really shouldn't be all that hard to pull together with the level of intelligance, skills, and experience gathered in here.


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Really guys.
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JERRY2KONE
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Really guys. - 10.17.2010, 08:03 AM

Really guys lets do this. Let us all pull together here on RCM and put this to rest once and for all. Just think of what this can do for the entire R/C community world wide? This can put an end to all of the confusion, and all of the Bull$hit blowing smoke up peoples skirt trying to fluff up their particular batteries regardless of advertising or anything else for that matter. Just pure facts, and stright up comparisons. Then they can talk all the crap they want about how their product is the best in the world or in the market, but none of that will matter because we will have the facts to shut them up. What do you guys think??

If we are all onboard with this, then BrianG can you set up a specific thread where all of us can put in our two cents for entries into whatever format you can come up with as a standard for Consumer Reports or whoever gets involved with this can follow. I know I'm pumped about the possible outcome that this will be able to reveal for all of us. Put the mystery out of the equasion and let us make the standard which all of the manufacturers will have to meet in order to be competitive for our business.


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Electric Dave
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10.17.2010, 08:30 AM

I like the idea of using some kind of standardized test but I have a feeling no such test fairly exists. Think about AA batteries. Duracell, Energizer and the like all have great ads proclaiming they make the best, strongest, longest lasting batteries yet even in these consumer products, there is no real testing or way to compare. No way to truly know if the expensive battery is better than the CVS generic battery. I doubt Consumer Reports wants to get involved in RC Hobby batteries. If, using an EagleTree system or some such device, someone impartial can separate fact from fiction, that would be a step in the right direction but I'm quite sure no unified system of reporting accurate numbers is coming anytime soon.

With all that said. I've got a MA 5250 4s Pack that I got 2-3 weeks ago, it's brand new. I didn't race this weekend but I did race with it last weekend. If BrianG or someone wants to conduct this test, I'd be happy to send it to him. It's not one of these new "Race Edition" packs but it is a brand new current model MA pack.
   
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gixxer
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10.17.2010, 01:08 PM

I just want to see graphs. If MA came up with a pack that can pull a true 150c (I highly doubt it) I will be a MA customer again. Until then my money will be going elsewhere.


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JoFreak
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10.17.2010, 02:49 PM

Not really interested in the "lipo-wars" here, but one question remains to all the people who demand to see some graphs:
What does a graph really tell you?
In case of doubt only that someone was quite capable of using power point, photo shop or MS paint and has a good imagination.
In my opinion graphs are meritless if provided by the manufacturer of the product.
Any manufacturer of any of their products that is.
I think a neutral, unbiased tester is the only one to provide a usefull graph.

But then, how do you test a product if it fullfills it's specs, if no sufficient specs are provided?
150C is fine, but for how long? One nano second? 10 seconds burst? Constant discharge? "True" just isn't a concept of time known to me.
Since there are no limiting factors given, to the amount of time the 150C are possible, one would have to assume it is constant discharge.
So maxamps-guys, if you really have any interest in "clearing your name" with the submonsters here, provide some specs so someone can actually test your products.
If not, the fronts will remain as they are.
   
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reno911
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10.17.2010, 03:33 PM

Unfortunately I think the greatest form of testing would be that of the few forms of media we have. If the RC magazines that are in existence weren't so heavily dependent on the advertisement of certain manufacturers to hold a test all in one of there mags I would be a happy man.

Just imagine how many folks would be resourcing that edition for there facts on batteries. Of coarse there would be some rebuttal but ultimately they have the torch in there hands. So many of us have prescribed to at least one if not more of these magazines. Imagine if they were to be the bearer of bad news.

Unfortunately certain mags, at least the ones I read, are owned by those who control there pocket books so we will never have a magazine that can man up and show its readers a true test. Maybe one day we will have this such thing happen...
   
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molak
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10.17.2010, 04:03 PM

Even if this pack do hold a 150 c discharge...(almost impossible)

WHAT´S THE POINT ??

There´s no motor/ESC that will pull that much Amps on 4s ... Is like killing a cockroach with a V2 missile...

Last edited by molak; 10.17.2010 at 04:04 PM.
   
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JoFreak
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10.17.2010, 04:17 PM

The bigger problem would be the equipment to test those specs.
You would really need some tough hardware for those 975 amps.
I would know just the right person to do a trust worthy test:
Gerd Giese from www.elektromodellflug.de/ is the LiPo guru in Germany, he certanly would have the knowledge to test those packs, but I doubt he would have the equipment.
Even if maxamps wouldn't provide a lipo, getting one for him would be easy, if everyone here, who wants to see hard facts and definite proof, would donate 10 bucks we could easily get at least one pack.

@molak: killing cockroaches with V2 missiles?
Sounds like fun
   
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