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  (#31)
hemiblas
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03.02.2011, 01:39 PM

So does a stiffer turn, mean stronger magnets, which in the end will mean more efficiency and lower temps? This should also mean higher initial inrush currents (or peak values). This could be why you need good batteries to deal with higher quality motors and why sub-standard batteries will work with sub-standard motors.

Nice work on the comparison.
   
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  (#32)
snellemin
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03.02.2011, 04:24 PM

No it does not. It's just the way the motor is designed. My two Tekno neu's and Tekin motor are easier to turn that my Castle motors.


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  (#33)
asheck
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03.02.2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:
BTW the newer 50hz Eagletree is so much better then the older 10hz one.
Well I'm glad it let me set it to 50hz. I wasn't sure for a minute there what it was. Now it's time to see if I can figure it out.

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Nice work on the comparison.
Thanks.
   
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  (#34)
snellemin
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03.02.2011, 05:36 PM

The 50hz will let you capture higher watt+amp peaks and voltage dips. I was able to see the Acepow pack drop to 8 something volt under load for 0.002 of second. This was enough to disable the RX8 ESC as the voltage cutoff was enabled. I wasn't able to see this with my older 10hz version.


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Last edited by snellemin; 03.02.2011 at 05:38 PM.
   
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  (#35)
BrianG
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03.02.2011, 06:08 PM

Are you sure that was 0.002 seconds? 50Hz equates to 20ms (0.02 seconds). Even still, that's still 5X better than 100ms.

asheck: Just be aware that setting it to 50Hz will reduce the amount of time you can capture data, and it also depends on what data you are capturing. If you just capture battery voltage and current, you might be able to last a whole run, but if you also capture other things (temperature, rpm, etc), your capture time will be shorter.
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  (#36)
snellemin
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03.02.2011, 06:22 PM

Don't worry about the 50hz. The logger has more memory and its recording algorithm is changed. I use the brushless sensor, temp sensor and gps for a whole pack and still have space after a pack.




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  (#37)
BrianG
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03.02.2011, 06:31 PM

Hmm, nice! I might have to get me one of those and sell my older 150A version. I really wish the onboard current sensor would measure accurately up to 300A though to catch those instantaneous peaks...
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  (#38)
snellemin
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03.02.2011, 06:39 PM

Yea me too. Because it would be nice to really know the true amps I was pulling for the Voltage to drop to 8.55. I use my older one for "light" duty now. I stuck Deans to it and use it for my older FMA charger, and less powerfull toys.


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Last edited by snellemin; 03.02.2011 at 06:41 PM.
   
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  (#39)
_paralyzed_
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03.02.2011, 08:07 PM

a gauss meter to check magnet strength would be cool.


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  (#40)
asheck
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03.02.2011, 08:55 PM

All I'm doing at the moment is amps and volts, I don't have any add on's. But I already maxed this one out with my Pede, I'd imagine the E-revo needs atleast the 150.
   
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  (#41)
BIG-block
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03.05.2011, 05:46 AM

Today I took apart a Leopard 4074 2150Kv and compared it to the Castles 1515 rebuild kit. First thing that struck me is the wrapping on the rotor magnets. I believe Castle uses Kevlar and Leopard seems to use carbon fiber from the looks of it. Well it's black so that is why I am thinking it is carbon fiber but not sure. The second thing that struck me was the quality of the wrapping job. Castles rotor is a work of art and the Leopard looks like ..........well it looks like I did it. But seriously though it looks much rougher than the Castle job. On this alone I doubt that Leopard could see the same kind of RPM that Castle motors are rated for (60,000rpm I think). At least I wouldn't take it there.

Everything looked very close at first and at a quick glance it does look like a Leopard just cloned the Castle motor but the more you look the less you think this is likely. Rotor shafts are different lengths and magnets are positioned in a different spot on the shaft (bit lower on the leopard). For a second I thought you could use the Castle rotor shaft in the Leopard but it looks doubtful. Maybe with some crafty spacing work on the shaft. The Castle rotor shaft wants to stay a bit higher in the leopard can (talking about where the magnets want the shaft to stay). I am pretty sure you could work something out with the spacers to position the rotor shaft in the right spot but not sure how the spacers pushing onto the sides of the bearings would affect things. Also seems like there might be an issue if the rotor isn't aligned right with the windings inside. Not a motor guru but I think there might be some issues there. With the Castle rotor inside the leopard motor there was definitely more resistance from the magnets then with the Leopard. Godd or bad? I have no idea but just stating it.

Castle motor uses 3 screws on the front end wheres the Leopard uses 4 to secure it's end bell. Also the diameter of the inside lip is different and the Castle end bell will not fit the Leopard. Not that it matters as they don't use the same bolt pattern. One thing I did like about the Leopard is that it has six holes on the front for mounting the motor vs. Castles 4. Not a big deal but I thought I would mention it. Sometimes more mounting options can make some jobs easier.

Bearing sizes are the same. I have read else but was surprised to see that they were the same. They are also made by the same company too. Can't remember the name now (Just three capital letters) and they have one set of same numbers as well. Castle has another set of numbers wheres Leopard bearings have the word Thailand written instead of those numbers. Hope that makes sense.

So in my opinion these motors are not clones at all. Not by a long shot. They do look similar but so do all the motors in the 540 class. Maybe they had a looksy inside of the Castles motors before they made theirs but they did not pick up a set of vernier calipers and backwards engineered them. To me Leopard did their own take on this.

Still I do have to say that the looks of the rotor on the Leopard worry me a little. That wrapping job looks really sub-par when compared to Castles. This alone would make me want to spend the extra money on the Castle motor. Also I really like how Castle use wires and not just extend the motor windings out side of the can. They don't feel too stiff or like they will break easily on the Leopard but it would certainly be easier to make a neater installation with the Castle motor.

I will be putting the Leopard through the paces sometime soon on a friends XTM Rail (GV Cage on some markets) and will report back on findings. Don't have a Logger but just the general feel for the motor + temps. Will be running it on 4S and 5S.

If anyone would like to see some pics of the insides of both motors let me know and I'll try to do it tomorrow.
   
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  (#42)
asheck
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03.05.2011, 09:08 AM

Big-block, you are a much longer winded typer then me. But did you see my pics on the previous page?
   
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  (#43)
BIG-block
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03.05.2011, 11:01 AM

Yeah, I missed those. Just had a look at them now. I think there is a need for a clearer picture of the Castle and Leopard rotor side by side. There really is a huge difference in the quality of wrapping. I think the pics bellow a little clearer.


Also bearings. Castle ones have the following printed on the shields. NMB R-1650HH 625ZZ. Leopard has NMB R-1650HH Thailand. Not sure which are meant to be better but the Castle ones feel much smoother. Much, much smoother. Going by that alone I would say that the bearings Castle uses are higher quality.


The leopard motor is also 2mm shorter.

I think the Leopard should do well but I think that in regards to quality it's chalk and cheese. Castle owns the Leopard in regards to the feel you get just by looking at the components. Everything about the Castle motor looks better made.

Last edited by BIG-block; 03.05.2011 at 11:05 AM.
   
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  (#44)
asheck
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03.05.2011, 11:22 AM

For sure, my pics are pretty crappy. I tried to get a clean one of the interior, and couldn't get any to turn out. I thought the Castle windings were better organized. I'm not concerned about the wrapping of the rotor. The Castle's for sure looks the best, but I've seen other's that were similar to the Leopards. The Xerun is wrapped more like the Castle, and has that glazing over it, but it gave the overall cheapest feeling.

So I'd like some opinions on this. I have 3 E-revo's here. I am most interested in testing the 3 bigger motor's, but I do not have 3 MMM's to run them all on, Nor do I have 3 identical set's of tires, I do have 2 Xerun esc's, and 2 MMM esc's, and similarly sized tires. To keep things fair, should I individaully test each motor in my E-revo, with the exact same setup? Or do I run them all at the same time, with the differences, so they could all be ran in the same enviroment, racing against each other.
   
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  (#45)
snellemin
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03.05.2011, 11:34 AM

Run all 3 motors in the same car. Less headache and you will actually see what the power differences are with the same load. Maybe one motor is easier on the ESC then the other. Powerband will be different between the motors. etc


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