RC-Monster Forums  
RC Monster

Go Back   RC-Monster Forums > RC-Monster Area > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Car Help..
Old
  (#1)
rawfuls
roofles.
 
rawfuls's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 1,982
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Woodland Hills, CA
Car Help.. - 02.17.2012, 01:16 AM

Very Nasty Creaking/Grinding Sound Upon Startup - 2001 Kia Sportage 2WD

Started hearing this, initially started on the freeway, was the first time I heard it.
I was in ECO mode, floored it on the freeway to catch up with traffic (merging from on-ramp to the lanes), heard the engine kick in (Best I could describe it, is, as if it's kicking in more cylinders, not very auto-intelligent, though) and could definitely hear the engine about to redline.
Sounded like it needed a bit more distance to shift into the next gear, so I left off the gas, and then I heard it, sounded like a gear grind.

Didn't pay much attention, figured I guess it was about to shift into the gear until I left off the gas, then it shifted back into the original gear it was in (had already gained to freeway traffic speed).

Parked at home, didn't turn it over until I was moving it from driveway to driveway.
Heard it, sounds like some gears shredding and grinding, but doesn't make too much sense to me- the transmission doesn't need to shift gears when turning over?

Started it up this morning, again, heard it.
Drove some, didn't hear anything during drives.
And after starting it back up to go back home, heard it again, and was in a parking lot, so lots of steering and sharp turns, and as I was maxing out a turn, I could hear it faintly.
Sounds like roughly the same thing.

I was thinking a timing belt, but doesn't sound likely, since the steering.
Maybe they're related, maybe not.
Seems to only reveal the sound during startup, and low-speed sharp turns. (I mean, like, 1-2mph sharp turns).

Ideas?

Would like to get this fixed ASAP, but won't be able to take it into the shop for about a week, or if it gets very bad (parents).
It's my daily commuter between home and practice.

Video:
After ~12 seconds, I was turning the wheel to give you a feel for the steering noise, otherwise, you should be able to hear the startup noise.



Has me thinking on the starter motor, but can't be sure.
Engine oil is right on the level point..
  Send a message via AIM to rawfuls Send a message via MSN to rawfuls  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#2)
whitrzac
Can't catch this...
 
whitrzac's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 1,142
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: baraboo, WI
02.17.2012, 09:03 AM

IMO it sounds like a cylinder is misfiring... check sparkplugs/fuel cleaner/etc



You may have bent a valve in your freeway escapades...


EDIT: see if you can find a shop with a nice OBD2 scan tool, I know mine has a cylinder output test along with elevitybillion other tests...

Last edited by whitrzac; 02.17.2012 at 09:04 AM.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
bruce750i
RC-Monster Aluminum
 
bruce750i's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 972
Join Date: Feb 2008
02.17.2012, 09:56 AM

Low on steering fluid maybe? Although I've never heard a pump make that sound. IDK, You mentioned a few times that it's the steering that makes the noise.

Last edited by bruce750i; 02.17.2012 at 10:22 AM.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
BrianG
RC-Monster Admin
 
BrianG's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 14,609
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Des Moines, IA
02.17.2012, 10:11 AM

I had a sound similar to that once and it was the water bump bearings. The "grinding" was the pump vanes slightly hitting something. Probably not the problem in your case though.
  Send a message via Yahoo to BrianG Send a message via MSN to BrianG  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
mikesauto
RC-Monster Stock
 
mikesauto's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 47
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: wa.
02.17.2012, 01:04 PM

check cv boots for rips look for grease around boot how long ago did it have tune up and check trany fluid if its brownish or smells bad change it
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
bruce750i
RC-Monster Aluminum
 
bruce750i's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 972
Join Date: Feb 2008
02.17.2012, 01:59 PM

Most fluids can be checked by some form of a dip stick in the engine compartment(under the hood). They are usually color coded and labeled. Check your owners manual for more details.

How many miles on it?

Linc where are you? We got a car question here.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
BrianG
RC-Monster Admin
 
BrianG's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 14,609
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Des Moines, IA
02.17.2012, 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesauto View Post
check cv boots for rips look for grease around boot how long ago did it have tune up and check trany fluid if its brownish or smells bad change it
In the video, he's not moving, and he gets the noise when just turning the wheel. So, it would have to be something related to the steering system, or something that happens as a result of steering (or any other action) that places a load on the component(s) making the noise.
  Send a message via Yahoo to BrianG Send a message via MSN to BrianG  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
rawfuls
roofles.
 
rawfuls's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 1,982
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Woodland Hills, CA
02.17.2012, 04:43 PM

As of now, 89,xxx miles.

Purchased with 88.

Upon purchase, we replaced engine oil, oil filter, rotated tires.

Few weeks ago, we had a check engine light, so I grabbed an OBD2 and it saw faulty emissions. After a drive cycle, it reset, and light turned off.

Since then, light has not turned on, beside the 'On' position with the key.

It is not only the steering that gives off the sound, but also on startup.
My father plans to replace the spark plugs for good measure, soon, but I don't see how that'd cause this grinding noise.

I have a strong feeling it's the starter, or some sort, but I cannot be sure.

Not sure if I mentioned this but, I've heard the sound SOMETIMES during a normal drive.
It's usually around the gear shifts (I can hear the differences in sound, between high rpm and it resetting back to low RPM, yet still going forward.. So I can assume it's a gear shift), and I hear a nasty noise.

The starter should not be on during a normal drive, right?

Tonight, or tomorrow, I'd like to go looking for the starter motor, detach it, clean it up (what I can see, not going to take it apart further), and reattach it and see if it has the same thing.

I have seen a few guides that say removing the intake manifold bracket will reveal the starter...


Near the end, after 12seconds, that is when the steering is, but that is only at maximum steering.
Otherwise, the steering is fine.
I just suspect some rubbing, but since I don't turn that far that often, I don't really mind, as long as it's not blowing anything up.

EDIT:
This is probably bad, but I accidently pressed on the accelerator pedal today while in park (was gonna depress brake to shift into Reverse in my garage), and went up to 2000rpm, and noticed the grinding.
Now, I'm worried.

Attached, video:

Last edited by rawfuls; 02.17.2012 at 07:16 PM.
  Send a message via AIM to rawfuls Send a message via MSN to rawfuls  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
Overdriven
Destroyer of Tires
 
Overdriven's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 626
Join Date: Feb 2009
02.17.2012, 07:17 PM

Idk if it's my phone, the echo of the garage or what, but it doesn't sound too healthy. I e never heard a steering pump make that kind of noise, more like the sound of rod knock or a bent valve. The pump will make a different noise when at "lock" (end of travel). It's ok to go to lock, just don't hold it there forever or try and force it to go further.

The grinding may be transmission related, since it happens at startup and while driving and around the shift points. The starter should not engage while the engine is running. If it's the starter actually engaging, it's not the starter that's at fault, it's the circuit that controls it that would be faulty. And to make the grinding sound teeth on the starter or the flexplate would have to be bad or something internally wrong like a bad bearing.


LST XXL MMM 1717 Custom Fabbed Conversion
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
rawfuls
roofles.
 
rawfuls's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 1,982
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Woodland Hills, CA
02.17.2012, 07:19 PM

Garage was open, and car was somewhat in the middle, so should not have been echo.
It was recorded using my somewhat old feature phone, so quality isn't amazing, but after reviewing it again, it sounds about right.

I was worried about the transmission as well, but it doesn't not happen when in drive, neutral, or reverse.

Also, why would the transmission engage during startup?
  Send a message via AIM to rawfuls Send a message via MSN to rawfuls  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
Overdriven
Destroyer of Tires
 
Overdriven's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 626
Join Date: Feb 2009
02.17.2012, 08:36 PM

Actually you said it does make the sound while driving in a previous post. The transmission has whats called a Front pump to move fluid through the trans. It is driven by the torque converter which is connected to the flexplate, fflexplate is connected to the engine crankshaft. So front pump is basically engine driven and is pumping fluid whenever the engine is turning, including startup.

But forget all that for a minute. After listening to the video again (computer instead of phone this time), I'd have a closer look at the power steering system. The noise at startup sounds very similar to the sounds when you had the steering at full lock. Check the fluid level, they usually get noisy when they are low, and it sounds like the pump is sucking dry at startup. Also make sure none of the lines are kinked especially the return line, the return is the flexible one that doesn't have crimped on metal ends. Power steering fluid shouldn't have a color and is fairly clear. If its turned brown or is no longer clear that would indicate a problem in the system also.

Edit: This post was in reference to the 1st video. I totally missed the fact a 2nd video was posted. The quality is not very good and its always hard to judge when not in person. I don't know what to make of the 2nd video.


LST XXL MMM 1717 Custom Fabbed Conversion

Last edited by Overdriven; 02.17.2012 at 08:43 PM.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
rawfuls
roofles.
 
rawfuls's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 1,982
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Woodland Hills, CA
02.17.2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdriven View Post
Actually you said it does make the sound while driving in a previous post. The transmission has whats called a Front pump to move fluid through the trans. It is driven by the torque converter which is connected to the flexplate, fflexplate is connected to the engine crankshaft. So front pump is basically engine driven and is pumping fluid whenever the engine is turning, including startup.

But forget all that for a minute. After listening to the video again (computer instead of phone this time), I'd have a closer look at the power steering system. The noise at startup sounds very similar to the sounds when you had the steering at full lock. Check the fluid level, they usually get noisy when they are low, and it sounds like the pump is sucking dry at startup. Also make sure none of the lines are kinked especially the return line, the return is the flexible one that doesn't have crimped on metal ends. Power steering fluid shouldn't have a color and is fairly clear. If its turned brown or is no longer clear that would indicate a problem in the system also.

Edit: This post was in reference to the 1st video. I totally missed the fact a 2nd video was posted. The quality is not very good and its always hard to judge when not in person. I don't know what to make of the 2nd video.
The transmission, if this were the cause, would the noise be constant, or only at shifts/certain points?

I just checked the power steering fluid, container is topped off to the fill-level line, but is a very dark color.
I touched the lid with a rag and turned to a slightly red-ish color?
Almost crimson.
I'm leaning towards rust dilution colored, but I can't be sure.

I would've touched the main container, but it's like an obstacle course to get in there.

Steering though, feels.. fine?

To be brief, the second video is just hearing the same sound @ the 2k rpm point.
  Send a message via AIM to rawfuls Send a message via MSN to rawfuls  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
rawfuls
roofles.
 
rawfuls's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 1,982
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Woodland Hills, CA
02.18.2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdriven View Post
Actually you said it does make the sound while driving in a previous post. The transmission has whats called a Front pump to move fluid through the trans. It is driven by the torque converter which is connected to the flexplate, fflexplate is connected to the engine crankshaft. So front pump is basically engine driven and is pumping fluid whenever the engine is turning, including startup.
Winner winner, chicken dinner!

Dad took it to a shop that we've been with for awhile.
Had a guy look at it, and he first suspected a cam shaft (This is the rod knock, right?), but after closer inspection saw the torque converter was very loose. Tightened it up, and it worked swell.
Drove out with a $50 bill, which isn't bad at all!

Though now, I'm wondering if we could have done it as fast as he did.. or double the time..

Haven't been home yet, so I can't test if the steering sound is still there, or the 2k rpm issue.

Thanks for all the help guys!

EDIT: Took it out for a spin, everything is all well again!
Steering sound is gone, 2k rpm noise is gone, and startup sound is gone.
Starting to like this Kia!

Last edited by rawfuls; 02.18.2012 at 06:53 PM.
  Send a message via AIM to rawfuls Send a message via MSN to rawfuls  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
lincpimp
Check out my huge box!
 
lincpimp's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 11,935
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Slidell, LA
03.01.2012, 10:21 AM

Glad that it was a simple fix. Given the sound in the video I would have suggested you check the blinker fluid level. That can cause a knocking sound. Also your shock absorber bearings may need to be rotated, any compentent florist can handle this. I woulod not suggest doing this at home. You may end up with a cracked block.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
josh9mille
RC-Monster Aluminum
 
josh9mille's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 897
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Same town as "Brand P"
03.01.2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lincpimp View Post
Glad that it was a simple fix. Given the sound in the video I would have suggested you check the blinker fluid level. That can cause a knocking sound. Also your shock absorber bearings may need to be rotated, any compentent florist can handle this. I woulod not suggest doing this at home. You may end up with a cracked block.
Also keep an eye on those muffler bearings!


Built Ford tough, with Chevy stuff.
   
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump



RC Monster




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com