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Racing with BL, what all is needed? How friendly are tracks
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Finnster
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Racing with BL, what all is needed? How friendly are tracks - 06.26.2007, 12:22 PM

So I'm still gearing up to go racing with my BL Revo. I've never raced before, adn I'm still trying to get everything together to be ready. Went to my first race over the weekend to just watch adn see how things run, but I still have a few questions on the logistics of racing w/ BL.

Looks like I will have to remove the CD and run in the MT class. Talked to a few people there, and they basically said w/ the CD the Revo would have to goto the Truggy class, but they just really can't keep up w/ the dedicated truggies. Seeing just how fickle the Revo CD is to begin with, I'll just go to the MT class. Looks like mains are 20 min. Heats are 15 min IIRC.

1.) Batts: What do people generally use? Lipos for the most part, but when running multiple heats, how do you keep enough batts charged? I don't have desire or $ to maintain multiple fleets of batts. Sadly I killed by 2x2S 15C 6400 packs, so all I have now is a 4S 10C 8000 mah TrueRc pack. Longer runtime, but noticebly less punch than the 15C pack. Def should last thru a main (30 min runtime likely, yes?)

I did decide to get some A123s. Last little experience has pushed me there. What I'm thinking of doing is running a 5s2P pack. Good power, enough runtime for 15 min I think (hope), but can be fast charged repeatedly. Aircraft guys charge these as high as 20A, so a full charge between heats. Downside is they are heavy, nearly as much as the 4S 8ah pack. :( But they are cheap, adn I won't blow up anything.

I'm getting a TP 1010C, so I'm looking to charge these @ 10A. It would be nice to get a lightweight 4S lipo pack down the road, but $$ and still makes be nervous for now.

2.) Pitstops:
Does anyone do this? I don't know if pits are forced. Everyone is nitro, they really have no clue about BL, all nitros just do it. If I have to do it, its ok, just a pain and slow vs a fuel up (batt swap.) Who do you get to do a pit for you? Will other guys just do it? the stand is 15 ft, so not like you can run down and do it yourself.

3.) BL Friendly?

Just how open to BL are people finding tracks to be? I talked to the track manager, he said did not know about BL, but I could prob run in the MT or Truggy class (first he said 1/10 elec, but I'm sure that would not go down.) It was a kind of "sure, whatever" answer.. but that doesn't mean all the racers will be like that. Some of the people who run the MT class said the motor choice was open, from BB to stock motors, but most people just run OS18s in their Revos as any bigger is too much for the smaller tighter track. I didn't say anything about BL at the time, just figure I'll show up and see what happens. I figure they have the option of putting as big as motor as they want, having BL is not that huge of adv.

4.) Motor: I have an 8XL/MM on RCM mount w/ manual brakes. So far temps have been really good to me, but I don't drive as hard as racing can be. The gearing is 16.3:1, which is as good as I've ever gotten it. Motor/esc temps seems really balanced. Speed is ~38-41 I would guess. Its a bit fast for the track, but I don't want to gear down else motor runs too hot, and I'm not want to put out more $ for a new motor. I'd like a Lehner one day, but need to make sure I'll like racing 1st, and track will allow me to run before I sink even more $$$ in. I suppose I could just make a 4s2P A123 but... Is this hopeless?

Aside from charger, batts, powersupply, few extra parts, and tools, is there anything else I need? Thanks

Oh, and when for the RCM bash @ barnstormers dammit? nothings posted..

Last edited by Finnster; 06.26.2007 at 04:01 PM.
   
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MetalMan
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06.26.2007, 03:26 PM

1. My solution is by using A123 cells in my Revo. Sure, they aren't lightweight (but still lighter than NiMh), but can be charged up completely in under 40mins, and I don't have to worry about balancing/safety. And since they're so cheap, I was able to get away with two sets (2x 5s2p) for around $250.

2. I haven't actually raced yet, but hopefully I will be able to start club racing on Sundays. Others have said that they do stop as if they were doing a pit stop just so they make it more fair for the nitro guys.

3. At the tracks I have been to, they haven't cared that I run electric (but I haven't raced yet). Obviously you couldn't do any big races because there is no ROAR electric 1/8 class. But for many tracks they will probably put you in the unlimited class (with truggies) because you have so much power/torque/speed compared to the nitros. Of course, this will vary from track to track.

4. (3.) You should drive on a track at race pace so you can get an idea of what to expect the temps to be.


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supralover72
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06.26.2007, 03:31 PM

For forced pits, you will not have to change your batt. You just basically do a stop or stop for a set amount of time and go. But, that's if your required to do a certain amount of pits. You can also substitute one for a bat swap. It really depends on how strict you track is.


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BlackedOutREVO
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06.26.2007, 04:00 PM

one thing tho, bashing and track driving is different by alot!

u have to gear the motors for the infeild and all the tight turns where u have to slow down and then accelerate out

after that, the ppl could say i don care, if u start winning they mite whine and say u are only winning cuz of bl
   
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Finnster
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06.26.2007, 04:23 PM

Great info so far!

I hope to not get stuck in the truggy class. Or if I do I hope the Revo can keep up. Might be easier at that point to convert a truggy and do it properly, but I'll worry about that down the line if I just get smoked for reasons other than my drving skills.

MM: What runtimes are you getting on your 5s2p pack in the revo? What motor? Is 15 min asking too much?

I'm not looking to win any championships, just show up, have a good time and not suck. the next race aT the track is in 3 wks, so i'mhoping I can go there and just practice some to get the feel of it and see how it runs. I've been tryig to "race practice" as much as I can at times bashing, such as taking corners, controlled braking, and practicing what good jumps I can find.
I looks like the truck is a bit nose heavy, so trying to train my finger not to panic brake mid-air when the nose starts falling is a much needed event. Had some really ugly landings the other day. Finger thinks that the brakes can stop the truck in the air when things start to go bad... yeah, not so good. Lighter batts would even the weight out, but see points 1-2.

I've had the truck geared lower, but the motor just gets hotter while esc goes down. Since the feigao is going to be hot anyway, I'm hoping the TQ & power will be more than enough anyway vs little .18 motors. Besides, I don't want to start off too good or they may kick me out.:005: Better to take em by surprise later.

Talking to the track manager, as soon as I said I wanted to run elec, he seemed pretty much up for whatever as I was just going to get killed anyway.

Last edited by Finnster; 06.26.2007 at 04:29 PM.
   
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BlackedOutREVO
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06.27.2007, 12:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnster
Great info so far!

I hope to not get stuck in the truggy class. Or if I do I hope the Revo can keep up. Might be easier at that point to convert a truggy and do it properly, but I'll worry about that down the line if I just get smoked for reasons other than my drving skills.

MM: What runtimes are you getting on your 5s2p pack in the revo? What motor? Is 15 min asking too much?

I'm not looking to win any championships, just show up, have a good time and not suck. the next race aT the track is in 3 wks, so i'mhoping I can go there and just practice some to get the feel of it and see how it runs. I've been tryig to "race practice" as much as I can at times bashing, such as taking corners, controlled braking, and practicing what good jumps I can find.
I looks like the truck is a bit nose heavy, so trying to train my finger not to panic brake mid-air when the nose starts falling is a much needed event. Had some really ugly landings the other day. Finger thinks that the brakes can stop the truck in the air when things start to go bad... yeah, not so good. Lighter batts would even the weight out, but see points 1-2.

I've had the truck geared lower, but the motor just gets hotter while esc goes down. Since the feigao is going to be hot anyway, I'm hoping the TQ & power will be more than enough anyway vs little .18 motors. Besides, I don't want to start off too good or they may kick me out.:005: Better to take em by surprise later.

Talking to the track manager, as soon as I said I wanted to run elec, he seemed pretty much up for whatever as I was just going to get killed anyway.

u know, i asked my local off road track if i could do truggy and a crt .5 class, both bl, and there like.. uhhh so ur running a bl in a full truggy and a crt .5? and im all yeah, any probs? there all no, u will be at a COMPLETE disadvantage in the 15 20 min races and heats, and im all dont worry about me dude... they all think im a nut LOL
   
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MetalMan
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06.27.2007, 12:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnster
Great info so far!


MM: What runtimes are you getting on your 5s2p pack in the revo? What motor? Is 15 min asking too much?
I think I get about 15mins (I haven't time it), and that's with a 7XL geared for approximately 40mph. Also, I have my own "slipperential" on the Revo, so that helps to reduce energy consumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnster
I'm not looking to win any championships, just show up, have a good time and not suck. the next race aT the track is in 3 wks, so i'mhoping I can go there and just practice some to get the feel of it and see how it runs. I've been tryig to "race practice" as much as I can at times bashing, such as taking corners, controlled braking, and practicing what good jumps I can find.
I looks like the truck is a bit nose heavy, so trying to train my finger not to panic brake mid-air when the nose starts falling is a much needed event. Had some really ugly landings the other day. Finger thinks that the brakes can stop the truck in the air when things start to go bad... yeah, not so good. Lighter batts would even the weight out, but see points 1-2.
Practice, practice, practice! If you want to be able to take jumps well, I suggest some larger jumps, where you have more airtime to get the feel of the throttle in relation to the angle the truck is at.


SH Z-Car, Custom Crawler, 8s Savage, 12s XTM XLB 1/7 buggy, 4wd 4-link rear/IFS Pro4 truck, Custom Hyper 10 Short Course, Belt-Drive Mammoth ST 1/8 truggy, 4s 17.5 MM Pro HPI Blitz
   
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Finnster
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06.27.2007, 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalMan
I think I get about 15mins (I haven't time it), and that's with a 7XL geared for approximately 40mph. Also, I have my own "slipperential" on the Revo, so that helps to reduce energy consumption.



Practice, practice, practice! If you want to be able to take jumps well, I suggest some larger jumps, where you have more airtime to get the feel of the throttle in relation to the angle the truck is at.

I've actually been getting better. Landing jumps is about the hardest thing to learn so far. In one of my vids I have the rustler jumping alot, high, far and fast and was landing pretty well most of the time. Its easier to practice on the rustler b/c its lighter and tougher, or at least cheaper to fix. Flinging the revo off jumps, that I spent all this time building, converting and investing in introduces quite a bit of cringe factor. Unfortunately this has a neg effect on my control.

Also, its a new truck, with much diff handling chars than the rustler or my V1. The biggest diff is the weigth balance. Both of the other trucks tending to be back heavy, so a brake stab was generally needed to land it right. My Erevo 2.0 was purposely built to go racing, so much attention was paid to keeping the wheelies down and move weight forward. Consequently its much longer and also front heavy, so now I have to be prepared to hit the gas to correct. Its a harder lession. Just hiting the brakes to level out to fix the " oh S$%^!" situation made more sence. Trying to go faster when its cringe-time is harder to train. Trying to train a diff jump approach as well, ie getting more zing off the jump to get nose up on launch vs sandbagging a bit to keep it down w/ others. Now trying to learn doing this in a rhythm to hit double/triple jumps will be the next big challenge.


I'm hoping the batts can clear 15 min. May make things tricky of not...
   
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MetalMan
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06.27.2007, 04:49 PM

Tomorrow when I take my Revo to a large 1/8 track I can time how long the batteries last for. The only thing is, this track is pretty large, so my runtimes could be different than yours.

Also, today I hit up a more local 1/8 track that is much smaller, and broke a rear axle on the Revo. This really sucks, because I have the Traxxas CVDs and I will have to switch back to a slider shaft until I can get a replacement axle.


SH Z-Car, Custom Crawler, 8s Savage, 12s XTM XLB 1/7 buggy, 4wd 4-link rear/IFS Pro4 truck, Custom Hyper 10 Short Course, Belt-Drive Mammoth ST 1/8 truggy, 4s 17.5 MM Pro HPI Blitz
   
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BrianG
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06.27.2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalMan
Also, today I hit up a more local 1/8 track that is much smaller, and broke a rear axle on the Revo. This really sucks, because I have the Traxxas CVDs and I will have to switch back to a slider shaft until I can get a replacement axle.
You know, that's not the first time I've heard of CVDs snapping. But the stockers seem to hold up fine. Kinda backwards you'd think...
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Scoob
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06.27.2007, 08:35 PM

In my area we have a pretty good class of 1/10 lipo stadium trucks now but 2 1/2 years ago when I started it was all nitro 1/10 trucks and only a few of us. We had to run with them all the time. If you have your truck set up to make runtime, make sure to tell them that you are willing to make mock pit stops as many times as the nitros have to. We always pitted for a count of five and the race director would tell us at a certain point to come in for a "pit". Trust me if you don't do this the nitro guys will see it as unfair, and really it is. You want to try to keep them satisfied so you can have a class to race in. It stinks but that's the way it is when your outnumbered. The other thing is, if you are the only electric you have a dilemma. You race to win but if you win they may not let you race anymore :).

Around here most nitro guys hate electric and be prepared to hear some snobish remarks. Just let it go. Whether they admit it right away or not, there will be a few who see how cool electric has become and may jump on the wagon with you to form a seperate class. Fortunately for our class this has happened so we don't have to deal with the mixing very often anymore. Gas truck has died and now they are the ones who ask to race with us.

We really haven't had many BL revo or 1/8 around yet but maybe it will happen in the future. The nitro guys, particularly in 1/8 would do everything in thier power to keep it from happening though. Most of them really HATE electric. That is the reason I (and most of my friends) have never built a BL Revo or 1/8th. We just don't feel like putting up with all the haters.

Good luck.

Last edited by Scoob; 06.27.2007 at 08:48 PM.
   
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spaz163
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08.25.2007, 06:58 AM

Last week here in my hometown the sole BL Revo won the Unlimited MT class, I think the nitro boys here are believers now!! :)

Also, where are you guys finding the A123 cells for cheap and what chargers are you using to charge them? Thanks.
   
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Finnster
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08.25.2007, 12:25 PM

Ebay Dewalt 36V packs typically. 10 cells for ~$100

i have a TP 1010C thats nice, but an astro 109 works really well, ot even just getting a lipodapter (Dapter) to charge A123s on a lipo or NIMH charger is a good way as well.
   
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zeropointbug
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08.25.2007, 01:25 PM

I am pretty sure a 5s2p pack last you 15 mins geared around 40mph.

I get over 30mins with 7s2p pack, and that's only 4 extra cells, and a Neu 1512.


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jnev
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08.25.2007, 03:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnster View Post
i have a TP 1010C thats nice, but an astro 109 works really well, ot even just getting a lipodapter (Dapter) to charge A123s on a lipo or NIMH charger is a good way as well.
Do you know if the Superbrain 989 can charge A123 batteries?


   
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