RC-Monster Forums  
RC Monster

Go Back   RC-Monster Forums > Support Forums > Brushless

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Project E-Mini Bike, Using an Outrunner
Old
  (#1)
Metallover
RC-Monster Spudgunner
 
Metallover's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 2,353
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Dakota
Project E-Mini Bike, Using an Outrunner - 08.06.2009, 12:22 AM

Well, I'm already head deep in this project. I got it a couple days ago and since the stock battery was dead, I decided to go right at it with the brushless stuff. Should be faster then the stock 150w brushed motor. Using the stock gearing for now; It's probably overgeared though. It's a 250kv HXT outrunner made for 36v, running on 24v sla with a supersimple controller. Might do a 9s lipo in the far future.

I got the bike for $30 plus $8 gas. In the honda I got 32mpg, pretty good for the thing. It's got a 2.2 i4 iirc. Average is about 28-29.

The first major problem came up (besides the shotty pinion boring and filling up the damn rear tire) and it's the throttle. I have a servo tester here and it really sucks to use. I want to use the twist throttle that's already on the bike. It has 3 wires and I really want to replace the pot on the servo tester with the thumb throttle. Let me know how I can do it, please.

It looks sweet with the body on, I'll get some body on pics when I'm done.

chassis after stripping


motor and mount


servo tester




want to hook up this throttle,, Guessing green is ground, yellow is signal, and red is +

Last edited by Metallover; 08.06.2009 at 12:26 AM. Reason: added info
  Send a message via AIM to Metallover Send a message via MSN to Metallover  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#2)
BL_RV0
RC-Monster Dual Brushless
 
BL_RV0's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 5,061
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Thousand Oaks CA
08.06.2009, 12:57 AM

Awesome! That's the same bike I'm doing the gas conversion on!!


Get me back into RC!
  Send a message via Yahoo to BL_RV0 Send a message via AIM to BL_RV0 Send a message via MSN to BL_RV0  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
J57ltr
RC-Monster Aluminum
 
Offline
Posts: 610
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tomball/ Houston Tx.
08.06.2009, 12:59 AM

Break out your meter and measure the wires on the pot installed on the servo tester. The outside pins should read about 5K. The middle is the wiper, it moves along from highest to lowest. so if you are on one of the outer pins the resistance will rise (or fall) as you turn the pot. The leads on the throttle will be the same if they both are the same resistance then you'll be OK. basically you will have to just remove the pot and replace it with the throttle control. Although since most ESC's have to be in a neutral position and the throttle is probably maxed at one range or the other so the ESC might not arm.

A pot is nothing more than a resistor that has a sliding wiper that when centered on the resistor will read half of what the total value is. So if you are in the middle the outside (lets say left) leg and center will read 2.5K and from the other outside leg (lets say right) and the center it will read 2.5K. As you move more to the right the left and center will start to increase in value while the right side and center will decrease.

Jeff


The Warnings & Cautions discussed in this manual cant cover all possible conditions/situations. It must be understood that common sense and caution are factors which cant be built into this product.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
BL_RV0
RC-Monster Dual Brushless
 
BL_RV0's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 5,061
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Thousand Oaks CA
08.06.2009, 01:03 AM

Also had a idea for the throttle:
Get a twist throttle for gas conversions (I ordered this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=360176795063 ) and make a arm for the pot on the servo saver, then attach the throttle cable to the arm.


Get me back into RC!
  Send a message via Yahoo to BL_RV0 Send a message via AIM to BL_RV0 Send a message via MSN to BL_RV0  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
Metallover
RC-Monster Spudgunner
 
Metallover's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 2,353
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Dakota
08.06.2009, 01:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BL_RV0 View Post
Awesome! That's the same bike I'm doing the gas conversion on!!
No Way! That's awesome... Honda Minimoto?

Have you managed to fill up the rear tire? How did you change the rear sprocket? Those are the two things I need to know, besides the throttle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J57ltr View Post
Break out your meter and measure the wires on the pot installed on the servo tester. The outside pins should read about 5K. The middle is the wiper, it moves along from highest to lowest. so if you are on one of the outer pins the resistance will rise (or fall) as you turn the pot. The leads on the throttle will be the same if they both are the same resistance then you'll be OK. basically you will have to just remove the pot and replace it with the throttle control. Although since most ESC's have to be in a neutral position and the throttle is probably maxed at one range or the other so the ESC might not arm.

A pot is nothing more than a resistor that has a sliding wiper that when centered on the resistor will read half of what the total value is. So if you are in the middle the outside (lets say left) leg and center will read 2.5K and from the other outside leg (lets say right) and the center it will read 2.5K. As you move more to the right the left and center will start to increase in value while the right side and center will decrease.

Jeff
So will my throttle work? Maybe yellow in the middle and ground to the right and pos to the left? Do I need to make some circut crap or get a new throttle? I hope it's easy as soldering on the wires in place of the pot..
  Send a message via AIM to Metallover Send a message via MSN to Metallover  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
Metallover
RC-Monster Spudgunner
 
Metallover's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 2,353
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Dakota
08.06.2009, 01:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BL_RV0 View Post
Also had a idea for the throttle:
Get a twist throttle for gas conversions (I ordered this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=360176795063 ) and make a arm for the pot on the servo saver, then attach the throttle cable to the arm.
Might have to do something like that. I'll either use a bike handle or mod the thumb throttle to turn the pot. Hopefully I can just solder this on..
  Send a message via AIM to Metallover Send a message via MSN to Metallover  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
BL_RV0
RC-Monster Dual Brushless
 
BL_RV0's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 5,061
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Thousand Oaks CA
08.06.2009, 01:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallover View Post
No Way! That's awesome... Honda Minimoto?

Have you managed to fill up the rear tire? How did you change the rear sprocket? Those are the two things I need to know, besides the throttle.


Yah, the minimoto. I used an angled nozzle attached to my air compressor to fill the tire. The way the big plastic pulley is held on is just fuckin' stupid. It is glued on to a small freewheeling sprocket on the rear wheel. I took it off just bu cutting it into quarters and prying each section off. I put a different sprocket on, simply by welding it next to the existing sprocket, then welding the freewheel mechanism closed, so the drive is locked, having the motor drag help slow the bike down. If you get on AIM we can talk about the bike and such.


Get me back into RC!
  Send a message via Yahoo to BL_RV0 Send a message via AIM to BL_RV0 Send a message via MSN to BL_RV0  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
J57ltr
RC-Monster Aluminum
 
Offline
Posts: 610
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tomball/ Houston Tx.
08.06.2009, 01:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallover View Post
No Way! That's awesome... Honda Minimoto?

Have you managed to fill up the rear tire? How did you change the rear sprocket? Those are the two things I need to know, besides the throttle.



So will my throttle work? Maybe yellow in the middle and ground to the right and pos to the left? Do I need to make some circut crap or get a new throttle? I hope it's easy as soldering on the wires in place of the pot..
There is no way of knowing till you test it. Never guess going by wire color. it tells you nothing, There is never a "cut the blue wire".

I am guessing it was already an electric bike, since the throttle is wire and not cable. 5K ohms is pretty much a standard value in a lot of items that use a pot.

But you need to get a meter (DMM,VOM, Ohm meter their called by a lot of names). Select it to the ohms scale. There are a lot of different styles of meters but it;s going to be the same test. Set the meter to read ohms around 20K to start, then read between and 2 of the leads coming out of the throttle. Record your reading. Leaving the leads in the same place Move the throttle through its range and see what the meter does, does it increase/decrease or stay the same? (BTW if the readings are like only 5 or 6 then go down to a lower scale on the meter, then again some are auto ranging).

Do the same with the other wires.(Red/Green, Red/Yellow, Green/Yellow).

At some point you will have a high reading; this will be the value of the pot located in the throttle.


Scratch out most of this because the pot is basically just set up as an adjustable resistor.

Just measure between the 2 pins that are tied together and the one by itself. Fully CCW should have the highest resistance, and CW will have near 0 ohms.


This part is more for how a pot is set up in circuit.
((Now take the reading between the pot located on the board on the outside legs (the 3 that connect to the board) Turn the pot all the way CCW record your reading. Turn the pot all the way CW and record the reading.))

The higher reading will be the value of the pot and should match the one for the throttle control.

Looking more at the board I can see that the center and outside legs are tied together. This makes this a little easier. You still need to figure out the throttle. Then when you have that straightened out you will just configure the throttle wires in the same manner.

If you increase throttle it should read the same as the pot that is already there, so if with the servo tester you crank it CW to make the speed control increase speed and you already know (because you checked that earlier, with your or someone’s meter), which way the resistance needs to go in order to increase the throttle. Wire the throttle to correspond with what you found out while testing.


It sounds harder than it is. As far as soldering buy a flux pen you can find them at better electronics stores.

Jeff


The Warnings & Cautions discussed in this manual cant cover all possible conditions/situations. It must be understood that common sense and caution are factors which cant be built into this product.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
killajb
RC-Monster Carbon Fiber
 
killajb's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 247
Join Date: Dec 2007
08.06.2009, 11:33 AM

Those little bikes usually come with a nozzle extension hidden inside one of the handlebar grip ends. Pop 'em off and see if it's still in there. Also.. for the $$, there's much better ways to go about this albeit not brushless..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	E-Bike.jpg
Views:	455
Size:	56.6 KB
ID:	7529  
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
Metallover
RC-Monster Spudgunner
 
Metallover's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 2,353
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Dakota
08.06.2009, 11:46 AM

Tired out the ohm thing. Never could get the reading to change by moving the throttle...

20k
Black/Red (contacts)

Green/Yellow 7.64
Green/Red 9.08
Red/Yellow 1.68
Yellow/Red 1.69

200k
Black/Red

Green/Yellow 53.2
Green/Red 55.1
Yellow/Red 1.6
Red/Yellow 1.6

2000k
Black/Red

Green/Yellow 433
Green/Red 433
Yellow/Red .1
Red/Yellow .1

None of the other wire combinations got a reading except the ones listed above. I think I may have a different type of throttle then what's required?
  Send a message via AIM to Metallover Send a message via MSN to Metallover  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
brushlessboy16
Im not dark, Im over ripened! xD
 
brushlessboy16's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 5,607
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Westampton NJ
08.06.2009, 12:13 PM

to find the overall resistance rating put the probes on the outer pins on the pot. that is your Pot resistance. you need a pot with the same resistance for it to work properly.


Benjamin White
R/c Monster Team Driver
Jq the car, LST, Sportweks turmoil pro
Unconventional Techniques, Superior Results
  Send a message via Yahoo to brushlessboy16 Send a message via AIM to brushlessboy16 Send a message via MSN to brushlessboy16 Send a message via Skype™ to brushlessboy16 
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
J57ltr
RC-Monster Aluminum
 
Offline
Posts: 610
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tomball/ Houston Tx.
08.06.2009, 12:44 PM

Looks like tht throttle is a 10K pot, and may be broken, if the reistance does not change while rotating the grip.

Yuo didn't give specs on the pot located on the servo tester.

Jeff


The Warnings & Cautions discussed in this manual cant cover all possible conditions/situations. It must be understood that common sense and caution are factors which cant be built into this product.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
Metallover
RC-Monster Spudgunner
 
Metallover's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 2,353
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Dakota
08.06.2009, 02:19 PM

With the pot on the servo tester, two leads are together and when I put the probes one way I get 5.29 and if I reverse them I get 11.49 while on 20k.

I might take apart the throttle thing to see what the problem is.
  Send a message via AIM to Metallover Send a message via MSN to Metallover  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
J57ltr
RC-Monster Aluminum
 
Offline
Posts: 610
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tomball/ Houston Tx.
08.06.2009, 02:25 PM

Ok you are getting different readings because you are "reading" other parts in the circuit. The 5.29K would indicate to me that's a 5K pot. Do one more thing. Place your leads where you read 5.29 and adjust the pit and see if the resistance starts to decrease.

Jeff


The Warnings & Cautions discussed in this manual cant cover all possible conditions/situations. It must be understood that common sense and caution are factors which cant be built into this product.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
Metallover
RC-Monster Spudgunner
 
Metallover's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 2,353
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Dakota
08.06.2009, 02:38 PM

The pot on the servo tester works fine, it decreases when I turn the knob.

Theory with the throttle: I think it has a few levels of throttle position. All the way down is neutral, then when you push it a little it goes to "step 1" which is something around 1.68, then it goes to "step 2" as you increase throttle some which is probably either 1.69 or 7.64, and so on. It doesn't use a pot but rather different resistance switches to give a few speeds rather then a full spectrum.

So now I'll try to incorperate the pot into the mechanical throttle mecanism.
  Send a message via AIM to Metallover Send a message via MSN to Metallover  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump



RC Monster




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com